Curse

Missing HB · Mar 21, 2011, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The game has always been free-to-play. But they can always charge for new fun feature or content. Costumes are fun too but they are not free.

At least the extra feature/content payments are optional, unlike traditional subscription-based MMOs.

Free-to-play excuse everytime is a bit easy though... I mean , why didn't we get paying content then . I'm sure there would have been less problems if we had to pay 5.99 for some missions or to unlock some arena instead of just to have some flashy costume or useless hero skin ( by that , i mean something that's gonna be fun 10mn and that's all....)...

The bonus mission pack was good and they still managed to fix abuse of that by dedicating weapons. Why didn't they continue with that ....

Silverblad3 · Mar 21, 2011, 10:37 AM // 10:37

It keeps coming up, value, advantage and finally honesty.

If anet had said this is there plan that they would use microtransactions to fund development after they stopped with EoTN then it would be a different issue. Firstly, they do not need the money. NCSoft is loaded and fronting them fully, all this money does is justify that they can use some resource that is sitting there doing squat.

'Development' is the issue, content over cosmetics, over advantage over cost. Over priced items in the shop and no real content excluding their marketing plan WiK/WoC (which is a methtod to generate interest to migrate customers from GW1 to GW2) is the issue.

By the way, this game is not FREE TO PLAY. I paid to play this freaking game.

Silver

novawhiz · Mar 21, 2011, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Then answer this, does having merc heroes gain you any advantage in this game? NO! Because so far the best hero builds do NOT require merc heroes, unless somebody can prove otherwise.

Are you really bringing this whole debate down to whether or not you think the 'best' mh team setup is better than the 'best' hero setup? You dont see anything wrong with that?

And yes, it does give you an advantage. The advantage is not the 7 proff MH setup that is better than the 7 hero setup. The advantage is being able to do more in pve and have more flexibility and options with your teams in pve just because you payed $45.

Forget this arbitrary comparison of which teams are better than others. MH will always provide and advantage because people with them have access to team setups non-paying players will never have. Prime example: doing DoA with heroes, you cant bring the much needed 5 mesmers it wants without paying

EPO Bot · Mar 21, 2011, 11:04 AM // 11:04

So people make a bunch of pve necros over and over just to fill their party with them?
That sounds like one hell of a chore. And the benefit you get from it is? Some ecto? Can't you just speedclear with people then? And is playing like this even fun for you guys?

In the time you need to train all those necros i can collect all the materials for a vabbi by doing DoA two times.

Improvavel · Mar 21, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

Forget this arbitrary comparison of which teams are better than others. MH will always provide and advantage because people with them have access to team setups non-paying players will never have. Prime example: doing DoA with heroes, you cant bring the much needed 5 mesmers it wants without paying

The guy can actually do it with 4 mesmers as well.

And next week that guy decides to try with only 2 mesmers and still does it.

Or in a couple of months there are changes to skills and the ideal setup is different or Shadow Form is nerfed or more heroes are added or whatever.

Or you could bring a friend.

People spent 4.5 years without doing DoA (these players complaining never played with friends/guildies/pugs) but now they are worried that some can do it in 2/3 of the time because they payed $20.

Dzjudz · Mar 21, 2011, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Additionally, full parties of the same profession can be recreated in game without mercenary heroes in case they confer any advantage in terms of killing/completion speed. I can't simply ignore that you can party with other people in this game.

I'm going to vanquish an area later today. There is a good chance that nobody in my alliance wants to do that area as well. As for pugs, has there ever been a random pug for a vanquish other than the last few days with zaishen vanquish quests? It's not so easy to make a full team of heroes to make any sort of team setup. Even if you could get 8 players together, the chance is very small that they have the setup you were looking for in 7 heroes (e.g. 4 mesmers etc).

Improvavel · Mar 21, 2011, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I'm going to vanquish an area later today. There is a good chance that nobody in my alliance wants to do that area as well. As for pugs, has there ever been a random pug for a vanquish other than the last few days with zaishen vanquish quests? It's not so easy to make a full team of heroes to make any sort of team setup. Even if you could get 8 players together, the chance is very small that they have the setup you were looking for in 7 heroes (e.g. 4 mesmers etc).

Why do you need 4 mesmers?

All these situations where a bunch of the same profession is the best choice (and for a vanquish 4 mesmers doesn't make a difference in speed) just means that profession is overpowered and/or the other professions are underpowered and Anet should actually take measures to correct that.

In the end you will just have that area vanquished in a similar time to a hero with 8 merc heroes.

On the other hand if a guy has 4 mesmer heroes but not a shadow form assassin he/she will not reach that 1:30 hm run time.

afya · Mar 21, 2011, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Why do you need 4 mesmers?

All these situations where a bunch of the same profession is the best choice (and for a vanquish 4 mesmers doesn't make a difference in speed) just means that profession is overpowered and/or the other professions are underpowered and Anet should actually take measures to correct that.

In the end you will just have that area vanquished in a similar time to a hero with 8 merc heroes.

On the other hand if a guy has 4 mesmer heroes but not a shadow form assassin he/she will not reach that 1:30 hm run time.

On the other hand if a guy has a shadow form assassin but not 4 mesmer heroes he/she will not reach that 1:30 hm run time.

We all know the game it's always rebalanced. Buff and Nerf happens from time to time. And players enjoy the so called overpowered profession/build before it gets nerf. Who knows what is going through anet's mind tmr? Tomorrow, it may not be 4 mesmer that is imba, but a 7 rangers B/P team that let you finish UW in 15 mins.

Again, if all they want is skin/bring their alts, just limit the number of heroes of each profession.

Mortarion · Mar 21, 2011, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I'm actually liking the MH's. After returning to the game after about a 12 month absence to find my accoutns been hacked, all may characters and heroes apart from my Assassin and Elementalist have been stripped of ALL thier gear I am basicalyl having to start again from scratch.

The reason I like the MH's so much is that I am finding there a MUCH less human players in the game than there used to be. Time was you get a PUG for pretty much any mission or elite area, now your lucky if there's more than a dozen players in any outpost. So I've fallen back on Hero's and MH's. I don't think it confers any kind of real advantage over standard heroes, assuming you dont have 10 character slots all filled with the same class, I personally have 1 character of each class, so its more aeshtetic than anything else. Yes it means I can have an additional hero of each class I still wipe as much as I did using Hero/Hench combinations, ok maybe a little less than I did but I wouldnt say its a massive difference.

I think it would have been a bad move if there had still been the number of players as there used to be as it would essentially cut out the need for you to group to do things. With the drastically reduced player base I am seeing, its no real problem.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

Dzjudz · Mar 21, 2011, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Vanquished elona with H/H. Done every z quest vanquish with ease without 4 of any profession.. or 3 for that matter.

Never used any "ways" either.

So.. just what is your point. Hard to make 7 hero Team setup? Really?

And what is the point to continued complaining. You aren't going to get what you want..get over it.

Sure I have GWAMM and 50/50 on one account and almost there on a second account, I know what's possible in PvE. My point is not that it is hard to make a 7 hero team setup, the vanquish example was just one example of a situation where the "oh you can make any team you want with 8 players" argument is really short-sighted.

And who are you to decide what we are and what we are not getting?

Star_Jewel · Mar 21, 2011, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Someone who paid for an item.. and reasonably expects that same item will not be given away to others free based on speculative forum QQ.
[...]
Same old QQ, different topic, different day.

The topic was reopened for sensible debate and examining the issue from all sides. You don't have to participate if all it boils down to for you is "QQ."

We don't expect merc heroes to be given away for free. No, that wouldn't be fair to people who already paid for them. But I don't see the issue in giving us more heroes, or a primary-changeable hero for free. Make them/it ugly as sin for all I care. Then the mercs would be truly cosmetic. If those who paid for mercs have a problem with that, then they have to admit they did pay for a significant advantage that's more than just vanity.

Quaker · Mar 21, 2011, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Let me start by saying that this is a TL;DR type situation. That is, I didn't bother to read the rest of the thread (or the old one) before replying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Do you consider the introduction of Mercenary Heroes to be an unfair game advantage for those with excess real-life money or an aesthetic fan-service that benefits many of the game's players (or both)? Explain.

I think that creating a Mercenary from a temp PvP character may have been an oversight. But, in the long run, I don't think it matters, and I like the idea in general. I think Mercenary Heroes were both a nod to long-time players and a way to generate some needed cash.
Note to NCsoft - how about a 5-slot bundle for those of us who bought a 3-slot and may now want to get all 8.

Quote:

Are teams consisting of 7 heroes of the same profession consistent with the game's themes and/or felt values? Why or why not?

It has always been possible to have a team of Humans of the same profession. Most reasonably good team builds can steamroller through most GW1 content already, so I can only see this as making a marginal difference.

Quote:

Do you believe that this is a "trend" that the Live Team and Anet may continue to follow in the future? In your opinion, is that a good or bad thing?

Overall, I think the continuing "watering down" of the RPG aspect of GW1 is a bad thing for GW1, and I hope it doesn't affect GW2 too much.

Quote:

]Profit is obviously always a concern for any for-profit business. However, over the years many game companies have added features to games specifically for the benefit of their fans, whether for monetary gain or not. What do you believe is the primary motivation for the addition of Mercenary Heroes - profit, fan service, or a mixture of both?

I think the term "income" is more accurate than "profit". Any adult, not living at home mooching off their parents, needs some sort of income to buy food, clothing, and shelter. Businesses need income too - to pay their bills (massive server farms and network connections don't come cheap) and to pay their employees.
It's nice to live in some dream world where nobody needs to make money and everyone does things for "free", but that's just not reality. Even those companies that supposedly add "free" content, are probably doing it mostly to ensure the long-term loyalty of customers and/or sweeten the deal to attract new customers.

Quote:

Does the addition of Mercenary Heroes change your opinion on the direction of the future of the company; namely - Guild Wars 2? If so, in a positive or negative way?

Not specifically. My fears for the direction of GW2 started way back when they started to "kiddify" things by adding stuff like Party Animal titles. My fear for GW2 is that the RPG elements may take a back seat to the hack'n'slash or frat-boy elements.

chessyang · Mar 21, 2011, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

People spent 4.5 years without doing DoA (these players complaining never played with friends/guildies/pugs) but now they are worried that some can do it in 2/3 of the time because they payed $20.

wait what? Worried about doing DOA 2/3 time? can you please rephrase that. Because why does someone worry about doing DOA 2/3 time if they never did it at all? I"m just trying to understand what you saying". I"ll respond once you do. I"M one of them "complainers" of DOA with ppl/guid/pugs.

also a few pages back. BMP http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild...s_Mission_Pack

People must be sup'ing up there heroes or you guys are more HARDCORE then me for heroes. I'll just toss my heroes whatever drops i get and do fine in game. What ever max dmg item i get i give them. or some Green Drop i have in storage. I can't see how the BMP is some sort of advantage. I rather use blue collect items then BMP and having to search/buy inscriptions for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

really people, come on.

To me i'm just seeing it as people want to steam roll over some area in PvE 20 mins faster then 5 mins faster. or farm something faster to make a buck faster.

enter_the_zone · Mar 21, 2011, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Storage panes aren't free, but character slots are better value. That was the part about storage panes which was and is ludicrous.

As for MH, the QQ is both funny and sad. I mean, really people, come on.

Dzjudz · Mar 21, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Someone who paid for an item.. and reasonably expects that same item will not be given away to others free based on speculative forum QQ.

What I PAID for was the unique ability to create heroes with my own ideas of appearance, an ability that did not exist in any form in game. I did NOT pay for a mechanic (group makeup) that by some means or another has always existed in game.

And how is giving everyone generic heroes so they can make the parties they want giving "the unique ability to create heroes with my own ideas of appearance" to others free? Mercs will still be the only way to do this. Like you say, you didn't buy Mercs for the mechanics but for appearance.

Again, we do not want free Mercs (as in, having a hero with the appearance of another char).

Daesu · Mar 21, 2011, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

Are you really bringing this whole debate down to whether or not you think the 'best' mh team setup is better than the 'best' hero setup? You dont see anything wrong with that?

And yes, it does give you an advantage. The advantage is not the 7 proff MH setup that is better than the 7 hero setup. The advantage is being able to do more in pve and have more flexibility and options with your teams in pve just because you payed $45.

Forget this arbitrary comparison of which teams are better than others. MH will always provide and advantage because people with them have access to team setups non-paying players will never have. Prime example: doing DoA with heroes, you cant bring the much needed 5 mesmers it wants without paying

Flexibility doesn't imply an advantage. Someone who bought the costumes has more flexibility to change his appearance, so by your argument that already grants an in-game advantage from money?

If that is your definition then everything in the store is an advantage, pet unlock set, skill unlock, costumes, xunlai storage pane, ability to change character appearance/name, etc.

Nobody has proven something that can be done through MH but cant be done without them. 5 mesmers means fewer rits and necros than you can bring in the team, with just using standard heroes. Are you saying that rit and necro heroes are always inferior to mesmer heroes? Because many people would argue against that. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses. Furthermore, people have completed DoA HM without using MH and without using cons, so who says 5 mesmers is much needed?

ogre_jd · Mar 21, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Fixed. Watch what you wish for. If you all push this point of "advantage" by group makeup then it stands to reason that ANY group made up by multiples of certain profs will have to be nerfed as well. No 4 mes hero group= no 4 mes player group. You cannot separate it. Do you seriously want that?

"You cannot Invite Player x as you have your max group limit of Profession X"

Nah. They could easily set it to "No more than X Heroes with the same primary Profession in the party" and not affecting the human and Henchman portion of the party. (in fact, now that I think about it, I'd rather like the idea of a limit of no more than *1* Hero of each primary Profession allowed in the party at one time)

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Storage panes aren't free, but character slots are better value. That was the part about storage panes which was and is ludicrous.

Character slots aren't better value. Major pain in the ass to be constantly switching characters to pass things to and from the mule (which, of course, has to be done through the more limited storage space you're left with due to the lack of extra panes).

enter_the_zone · Mar 21, 2011, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Character slots aren't better value. Major pain in the ass to be constantly switching characters to pass things to and from the mule (which, of course, has to be done through the more limited storage space you're left with due to the lack of extra panes).

45 slots (or 50 if you count the small equipment pack.. I don't) vs 20 slots, for the same price.... yeah, I know where the value is there.

Let's be realistic here, how often do you use the stuff on your mules? Yeah, me neither. Mostly they're for storing materials/weapons/mods and stackables like party/drunk stuff. Plenty of space on the 5 normal panes for passing back and forth to mules.... if your mules are on the same account. If they're on another account, it's just a simple trade.

Ghull Ka · Mar 21, 2011, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Hello, this is an interesting thread to read.

There is an "on paper" advantage inasmuch as I currently have more necromancer heroes than you do, if you have not purchased any mercenary slots.

There is no "practically applied" advantage inasmuch as I didn't have trouble shredding through PvE like wet paper BEFORE I added a merc hero. Now, after I added a merc hero, I have not noticed an increase in the speed with which I shred through PvE.

The mercenary heroes change didn't provide me with NEARLY as much advantage as the 7-hero update did. Having 7 heroes is what made me ridiculously powerful. Having an additional necro is moot, really, now that I have 7 heroes.

You may ask why I made the extra necro then? Because she's been an alt of mine for years, and I'm pleased that she gets to come along with me now, instead of being bored and useless on the character select screen.

billypowergamer · Mar 21, 2011, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Hello, this is an interesting thread to read.

There is an "on paper" advantage inasmuch as I currently have more necromancer heroes than you do, if you have not purchased any mercenary slots.

There is no "practically applied" advantage inasmuch as I didn't have trouble shredding through PvE like wet paper BEFORE I added a merc hero. Now, after I added a merc hero, I have not noticed an increase in the speed with which I shred through PvE.

The mercenary heroes change didn't provide me with NEARLY as much advantage as the 7-hero update did. Having 7 heroes is what made me ridiculously powerful. Having an additional necro is moot, really, now that I have 7 heroes.

You may ask why I made the extra necro then? Because she's been an alt of mine for years, and I'm pleased that she gets to come along with me now, instead of being bored and useless on the character select screen.

This is my general feeling on the mercanaries. It's more so that 7 heroes have made my teams more efficent. Mercanaries have just allowed me to change up the look of my party(sorry Norgu, my mesmer looks far more fabulous then you do).